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Subject: THE FATHER AND GOD OF JESUS
Replies: 27 Views: 1146
elijah_2 11.05.12 - 10:43pm
INTRODUCTION: There are a number of passages in the Bible that says that Jesus has a Father and that Jesus has a God. And persons interpret this basic fact by saying: If Jesus has a God and a Father, then by default he cannot be God. However, we are going to examine this idea from the scriptures. *
elijah_2 11.05.12 - 10:55pm
In John 20:17 the Bible records,
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
(King James Version) *
elijah_2 11.05.12 - 11:09pm
In John 10:36 the Bible records,
Say you of him, whom the Father has sanctified, and sent into the world, You blaspheme; because I said, I am the Son of God?
(King James Version) *
elijah_2 11.05.12 - 11:12pm
NB:This was during Jesus Christ Earthly Ministry. *
elijah_2 11.05.12 - 11:18pm
In Revelation 3:21 the Bible Records,
To him that overcomes will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
(King James version)] *
elijah_2 11.05.12 - 11:23pm
In Revelation 3:12 the Bible Records,
He that overcomes will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
(King James Version) *
elijah_2 11.05.12 - 11:28pm
NB: This was and is the mere reality during Jesus Christ Heavenly Ministry as our High Priest before the Person of the Father. *
elijah_2 11.05.12 - 11:32pm
LET US FIRST EXAMINE THE TERM: My Father
The scriptures says in reference to all creation, Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us?... Malachi 2:10 *
elijah_2 12.05.12 - 02:04am
The Bible clearly tells us that all creation has one Father. Yet Jesus said in John 20:17 to Mary, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. John 20:17 - - making it seem as if his father and our Father are two different person.
Likewise, as if his God and our God are two different God. Why not just say, I ascend unto our Father and our God *
elijah_2 12.05.12 - 03:11am
In Luke 2:48-50 the Bible Records,
And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother [Mary] said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? Behold, thy father [Joseph] and I have sought thee sorrowing.
49. And he [Jesus] said unto them [Mary and Joseph], How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's [the first person of the Omnipotent God] business?
50. And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.
NB: Mary already knew that Jesus was the Son of God according to the Angel Gabriel in Luke 1:35, but now Jesus used the term My Father and when he used that title it left Mary and Joseph puzzled as to what that means according to verse 50 of Luke chapter 2. On the other hand if Jesus had said, wist ye not that I must be about our Father's business? - Then they wouldnt have been left puzzled.
Jesus using the term My father is a reference to Luke 1:35 - He shall be called the Son of God, but she fail to comprehen Jesus's Declaration. *
elijah_2 12.05.12 - 03:15am
Infact if you search the Gospels: Mathew, Mark, Luke and John...you'll see that Jesus never refers to the father as our father or our God its always My father and our Father why was this so? The answer recline in the term the Son of God which we will examine shortly. *
elijah_2 12.05.12 - 03:18am
Inactuality, if we search the Bible from Genesis to Revelation we will see that the term God the Father is a title only used in the New Testament given to the first person of the Omnipotent God based on the New Testament explicit Revelation of a second person who in is incarnation became the Son. Hence, the title God the Father is a reference to the Relationship the first person had and still continues to have with the second person. *
elijah_2 12.05.12 - 03:20am
QUESTION :1 Has Jehovah God the person of the Father always been the Father of the Person of Jesus?
In Hebrews 1:5 we find the Answer, For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
The terms: will and shall used in this passage are both terminologies that express a future occurrence. Therefore; at the time when this statement was uttered and prior to it being uttered the first person of the Omnipotent God was not the Father of the second person of the Omnipotent God. *
elijah_2 12.05.12 - 03:35am
QUESTION: 2 So, if the first person of the Omnipotent God has not always been the Father of the second person; then when did the first person became the Father of the second person as prophesied in Hebrews 1:5?
In Luke 1:35 the Bible Records,
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
NB: Jesus nature IS NOT from a man, but from the Holy Spirit who shares the same nature as the Father. Therefore; he shall be the Son of God. *
elijah_2 12.05.12 - 03:45am
SECONDLY, LET US EXAMINE THE TERM: My God
Jesus is said to have a God in the scriptures, and that God is made out to be the Father. So, how can this me if the Son was equally God as the Father? *
elijah_2 12.05.12 - 03:51am
To answer this we will look at a verse of scripture that not only explains how can this be possible, but which also gives the sequence of it actually took place.
By definition all created beings whether: an Angelic being or a Human being both groups are created, thus, would naturally fall in the category of servants of God. However, the Apostle Paul told the Church at Philippi that before the incarnation Jesus wasnt placed in the category of servant
*
elijah_2 12.05.12 - 04:01am
In Philippians 2:5-7 the Bible Records,
5.The attitude you should have is the one that Christ Jesus had. 6. He always had the nature of God but he did not think by force he should try to remain equal with God [a reference to the Father]. 7. Instead of this, of his own free will he gave up all that he had and took the nature of a servant. He became like a human being and appeared in Human likeness.
(The Good News Bible) *
elijah_2 12.05.12 - 04:12am
NB: if Jesus took upon himself the form of a servant of God, then before he took upon himself a form of a servant then he wasnt a servant. And if he wasnt a servant prior to him taking upon himself the form of a servant then he wasnt an angel, and therefore by default he must have been God. *
elijah_2 12.05.12 - 04:35am
And this is the testimony of the scriptures that he - Jesus ISN'T or WASN'T an Angel. The Apostle Paul asked his fellow Hebrews the Rhetorical Question over and over unto which Angel did God ever say this or unto which Angel did God ever say that? And the plain answer to those Rhetorical Questions is God [reference to the Father] NEVER said those things to any Angel. Therefore; the person to whom those things were said MUST be God. I Love the way the Good News Bible render such passages:
Hebrews 1:2 For God [reference to the Father] NEVER said to ANY of his angels you are my son, today I have become your Father. NOR did God say about ANY angel, I will be his Father and he will be my son.
Hebrews 1:13 God NEVER said to ANY of his angels: sit here until I put you enemies under your feet. 14. What are angels, then? They are spirits who serve God [in other words: servants of God] and are sent by him to help those who are to receive salvation.
Hebrews 2:5 God HAD NOT placed the angels as rulers over the new world to come the world of which we speak.
THEREFORE; if Jesus Christ is an Angel then he MUST be God as only God is a higher being than that of an Angel. *
elijah_2 12.05.12 - 04:57am
But even though he was and is God. Paul tells us in Philippians that Jesus took upon himself the form of a servant. And as a servant of God; specially the first person of the Omnipotent God who became the Father of the second person as what we saw in the writings of Paul earlier in Hebrews 1:5. He serves and worships the Father just like how any ordinary servant would and should.. *
elijah_2 12.05.12 - 05:10am
God the first person of the Omnipotent God was the God of the secon person of theOmnipotent incarnated base on the mere fact that cannot be overstated: As a man; he is the one to whom he prays to like any ordinary man. He is the one whom he depends on, just like any ordinary man. And we can go on and on. Logically speaking... groups that deny the Deity of Jesus Christ can attest that if there were infact three persons comprising one being that is God; then if one of those person were to become a human being like any of us then he referring to any of the other two person of that being of God as: My God - wouldnt prove that he wasnt God in his pre-incarnate state. *
elijah_2 12.05.12 - 05:18am
FURTHERMORE: Jesus said plainly, I am the Son of God which is a reference to Luke 1:35 which says to paraphrase the verse, because the child is not from a man, but from the Holy Spirit: therefore, he shall be called the Son of God. *
elijah_2 12.05.12 - 06:09am
The Bible refers to faithful servants of God as: sons of God (Gal 3:26; Rom 8:4, 19). Other passages uses the term, Children of God (Deut 14:1; Math 5:9; John 1:12). Likewise, angels who are faithful servants of God are called: sons of God (Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7). Jesus on the other hand is called the Son of God (John 10:36). Furthermore; Jesus is called, the ONLY begotten Son (John 3:16, 18; John 1:18).
Inaddition, Jesus calls himself the Son man numerous times, and this in a unique way didnt mean that he was son of a man person; rather it signifies that he was a man by nature. Over and over especially in the Old Testament the term son of man means; that the person a man. Likewise, Jesus calling himself the Son of God signifies in a unique way that he as the nature of God or that he by nature is God. *
elijah_2 12.05.12 - 06:19am
A Dog DOES NOT produce a Cat, nor a Cow a Bird. The Product of a Dog is a Dog; the product of a Cow is a Cow. Likewise, the product of a man is a man; and the product of deity is deity.
The Jewish Scholars understood this reality, that Jesus calling himself the Son of God (John 10:36) means he is of the same nature as the Father; and therefore God (John 10:33). *
elijah_2 12.05.12 - 06:26am
In Hebrews 1:2 we read, He [Jesus] is the exact likeness of God's [Father's] own being [nature].
In Colossian 1:15 we further read, Christ is the visible likeness of the invisible God [Father]
(The Good News)
However; No person that is not God by nature can be compared to God is the general testimony of scripture.
Psalm 113:5 There is no one like the LORD [YHVH] our God
1 Samuel 2:2 there is none like him.
Exodus 15:11 who is like you
Jeremiah 10:6 LORD [YHVH] there is no one like you
2 Samuel 7:22 Sovereign LORD [YHVH] there is none like you
Isaiah 46:9 there is no one else like me
Isaiah 40:25 To whom can the Holy God be compared?...
Isaiah 46:5 To whom will you compare me? says the LORD [YHVH]. Is there anyone else like me?
Quoted from the Good News Bible.
Other References: Ps 86:8; Micah 7:18; Deut 32:26; Ex 8:10; 15:11 *
elijah_2 12.05.12 - 06:57am
NB: As i close, I started out the topic by staying Jesus referred to the first person of the Omnipotent God as: my Father and my God (John 20:17) during his earthly ministry as a man in the office of a servant and prophet of God (Deut 18:15). After his death, burial, and resurrection he still remains a man with a gloried human nature and the Father is still his God and His Father (Revelation 3:12, 21) and is now in his Heavenly Ministry as a servant and a priest of God (Heb 9:11-14; 1 Tim 2:5; 1 John 1:2). *
elijah_2 12.05.12 - 07:06am
CONCLUSION: Jesus referring to the first of the Omnipotent God as my father and my God doesnt disprove his deity. Rather we have seen that the second person of the Omnipotent God became a servant to the first person of the Omnipotent God. And as a man Jesus eats, sleeps, gets tired like any ordinary man contrary to his pre human existence in which he doesnt eat, sleep, or gets tired as Unitarian groups can attest to. Likewise, as a man he prays to God in the person of the Father, he served him and worships him just like any other human being. Jesus wasnt a servant prior to him taken upon himself the form of a servant; and equally he wasnt and isnt an angel the bible says it over and over. The Bible is clearly the deity of Christ is unrefuted. *
elijah_2 12.05.12 - 07:10am
Much more could be said, but for me to get in even more details it would take forever. Nevertheless, feel free to create a subtopic and pen your comments and questions. I will gladly, by the Grace of God answer those questions and reply to those comments! *
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